Sally Davies: master of Trinity College

Chris - We're sitting in Trinity College, you are master of Trinity College. I think you are the first female master. You are the first person who came in as Master who wasn't a Cambridge person. So it's the first on many levels and you did it in what must be the best timing ever in sort of policy and politics and so on. You dodged the bullet of COVID because you stepped down in 2019 as  Chief Medical Officer and came here. You must have thought, my goodness, didn't I get that right?

Sally - I do. I dodged the bullet. So I'm very privileged to be here and I'm delighted that Chris Witty was CMO, not me.

Chris - <laugh>. Why, because you didn't like him? <laugh>

Sally - Actually, I'm very fond of him and we're good friends. I think he's wonderful. I think he did a good job. And he also is much younger. He's got more energy and he's an infectious disease doc. He's great.

Chris - When that kind of thing happens, how long does someone stay as Chief Medical Officer did, did you go, because you said, 'I'm done here. I've done what I wanted to do. I've made my mark. I need a new challenge.' Or do people begin to say in the nicest possible way, again, a bit long in the tooth, you need to look for a new challenge or something.

Sally - So there's a renewal process and that for me was no problem. But I always said it's wrong to stay longer than 10 years. And I was coming up for 10 years when Trinity invited me to come here. And you should go when you are still doing well. You should never overstay your welcome in a job.

Chris - One of my long-term friends said to me, she used to run radio networks and stations, and she said ‘you need to go after a certain period of time because otherwise the problems become your friends.’

Sally - <laugh>. I hadn't heard that one, but I think there is something about going on a high. I had a boss in R&D who after five years left and I said, 'but you're doing a fantastic job. Why don't you stay?' That's the perfect moment to leave. And I took it to heart.

Chris - What are you going to do here in Cambridge? What's in your 10 year game plan here at Trinity?

Sally - Well, I won't stay 10 years. I have eight years maximum as a master for this college. What I want to do is leave us even stronger than we are now. It's not about me, it's about what a wonderful place it is for fantastic students. How to make sure we're giving them the best.

Chris - But you can use this presumably as a springboard to realise a number of things and keep going. Some of the other important work you've been doing. So are you keeping a hand in the CMO work and the other projects you've had cooking as well as bringing to bear other things here?

Sally - Yes. I'm still overworking. So I continue unpaid as the government's special envoy for antimicrobial resistance. And I really do a terrific amount. I'm on the United Nations Global Leaders Group on AMR and things like that. Proselytising. Actually more pushing and shoving and shouting and squeaking anything that'll get action. I want to save lives. I want to look, if I ever have them, grandchildren in the face and be able to say, 'I did my best'. Even better, 'I pushed hard and we sorted the problem.' So I do that, but I'm also co-chairing with Ara Darzi, a commissioner at IPPR, on the links between health and productivity in the economy. It's kind of common sense, but we're beginning to put together the data to prove it. So therefore you need to look at health and people need to see health as an investment rather than a drain on the country.

Chris - So did you know they were going to approach you about coming here and how did that go down. When the offer came in, what went through your mind?

Sally - No, I didn't. I got a phone call out of the blue one August. You know, 'we're looking for a new master.' I said, 'yeah, I know you are.' Because my husband's here. And I said, 'well, yes, you normally have a Nobel Prize winner.' And I started listing people and then this colleague who is a fellow said, 'well, what about you?' And I roared with laughter and said, 'you'd never have me. I'm female. I'm not from Cambridge, let alone Trinity. No, I hope you find someone good.' And so there were repeated phone calls until eventually I said, 'oh, okay, I'll think about this' <laugh>. And here I am. Aren't I lucky?